When it comes to content, commerce and entertainment, the lines are blurring, as more brands are moving beyond campaigns to treat them as infrastructure.
We see Gap creating a Chief Entertainment Officer role, major media outlets investing in talent and audience development, and brands building studios, licensing arms, and long-form content strategies.
These aren’t isolated moves; they signal a broader shift in how companies are thinking about attention, trust, and cultural relevance. Some see this as the rise of the personality brand.
When brands start acting like media companies, PR and communications professionals need to be involved – but how might this impact our work?
We’ll examine this trend and what it means for PR and comms pros on this episode of PR Explored, featuring guest Fatou Barry, founder of The PR Girl Manifesto.
Show summary:
In this episode of PR Explored, host Michelle Garrett, a PR consultant, author, and writer talks with her guest, Fatou B. Barry, founder of the PR Girl Manifesto, a global community and editorial platform created to provide culturally competent PR resources, strategy, and professional development.
They discuss the rise of “personality brands” as a structural shift where companies prioritize long-term identity, recurring voices, and entertainment-driven continuity over one-off product campaigns, driven by fragmented attention and declining institutional trust.
Using Gap’s new Chief Entertainment Officer as a signal, they cite examples like Nike, Red Bull, Dick’s Sporting Goods, and Skims to show brands building studios, original programming, and IP to own audience relationships.
They explore how paid, earned, and owned media are merging, expanding PR into narrative systems, production, ethics, and talent strategy, raising expectations for skills, education, media literacy, and compensation.
They also predict collaborations will shift from reach-based influencers toward credible experts and community leaders, emphasizing alignment, authenticity, and trust.
00:00 Welcome and Introductions
00:50 PR Girl Manifesto Origin
03:23 Defining Personality Brands
05:48 Attention Fragmentation Today
06:54 Gap Chief Entertainment Role
07:52 Brands as IP Studios
12:24 Paid Earned Owned Blur
14:12 Skills and Education Shifts
17:47 Media Literacy and Trust
23:43 Hiring the Right PR Pro
26:38 PR in a Media Company Era
28:03 Scope Creep and Fair Pay
30:51 Expert Era Shift
34:54 Authenticity Over Hype
37:01 Beyond Influencers
38:11 AI Search Rewards Credibility
39:25 Journalists As Creators
44:10 Trust And Personality Brands
49:43 Values And Taking Stands
53:28 Interactive Story Content
54:59 PR As Story Makers
57:57 Opportunity And Responsibility
Show notes:
Show notes:
The PR Girl Manifesto: https://www.prgirlmanifesto.org/
The PR Girl Manifesto on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-pr-girl-manifesto/
Fatou Barry on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fbarry/
Full transcript:
The Rise of Personality Brands – and What It Means for PR & Comms Pros
Michelle Garrett: [00:00:00] Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of PR Explored the PR podcast where we delve into trends and topics related to public relations. I’m your host, Michelle Garrett. I’m a public relations consultant and a writer, and my guest today is Tu Barry.
Welcome. And you p Fatou is the founder of the PR Girl Manifesto. If you didn’t know that, I’m sure a lot of people probably know who you are, but I would love it. Thank you for being here first of all. Right. Thank you for
Fatou B. Barry: having me.
Michelle Garrett: And I would love it if you would just tell us a little bit about, you know, everything that you’re up to, anything that you want to share.
Fatou B. Barry: Of course. Well, first I have to start off by saying thank you. this is a full circle moment for me. In the early days of PGO Manifesto, when we were just starting to build programming and [00:01:00] community. We were incredibly active on Twitter and we mentioned, I mentioned this to you, but you used to host a Twitter chat.
and I genuinely always looked forward to it. It, I think was one of the key spaces where people were like being thoughtful and strategic and having conversations about PR and comms. So you were so generous in insight, so you were a real resource. And I have to just like say thank you. So to be sitting in conversation with you feels very meaningful.
not just personally, but as a reflection I think of like. Where we started and like where we are now. So thank you. First. for those who might not know me, I’m Fatou, I’m the, a communication strategist. I’m the founder of PR Go Manifesto. We are a global community and editorial platform for PR and comms professionals.
I started, PR Go Manifesto because when I entered the industry, I felt like there was a real. Lack of successfully and culturally competent resources. I think there was a lot of like unspoken rules about how to succeed, but not enough guidance on like, visibility, right? Or like how the media ecosystem was [00:02:00] evolving.
And I wanted to basically build a space where PR professionals from early comm, sorry, from early career to senior leadership could access insight community and, and strategy in one. Place, today. That was like, what, 10 years ago? so today we operate, I think as both kind of like a professional development platform that has an editorial voice.
we do panels, we host industry conversations, we publish analysis. So we’re always like doing case studies. We’re working on a career readiness fellowship, that we’re really excited about. And we basically study, I think, media through a PR lens. we look at trust, we look at entertainment, we look at strategy and put it into a context.
That can support pr com, pr and com professionals at every stage. So I think at a, at its core, my work is really about helping PR and com professionals move from app amplification, to like authorship and supporting and creating a culturally competent industry.
Michelle Garrett: I love that. And that’s very important.
And so you’re doing such a poor [00:03:00] work and I’m just, again, I am thrilled to have you here and I appreciate, you know, what you said, how we about, about how we met on Twitter and you know, we were chatting a little bit beforehand about, you know, the good old days and yes.
Fatou B. Barry: It’s a good old days. Yes.
Michelle Garrett: So this is, this is a full circle moment for me too, to have you here and I’m just so thrilled, that you’re here.
And, we are gonna be chatting a little bit about a topic that’s maybe new to some people, but it’s really not necessarily that new. So, we’re, let’s just kind of set the stage a little bit because, we’re talking about personality brands. Yeah. And, I saw a post, the PR Girl Manifesto page, which everybody should follow on LinkedIn.
I’ll put that in the comments in just a second as well. About, how brands are restructuring around content, entertainment, and talent.
Fatou B. Barry: Mm-hmm. [00:04:00]
Michelle Garrett: and so let’s just, let’s, can you just, let’s just talk about that. Yeah. Why don’t you share a little bit about that
Fatou B. Barry: for sure. Yeah. So when I think about like a personality brand, right?
I don’t, I’m not thinking about it in like. And I think we talked about this a little bit before, like the individual who’s behind the brand, it’s not like founder, like led Ooh, like strategy. I’m really talking about a, a structural shift and I think how companies are defining themselves. historically, brands I feel like have centered strategy around products and campaigns, right?
You identify a target audience, you develop messaging, and then you run your campaign cycle and kind of. Move on. and I think what we’re seeing now is different. I think brands are like really trying to build continuity. So they’re prioritizing reoccurring voices. They have, recognizable collaborators and narrative arcs that are long term and that extend beyond just like a single launch window.
and so I think a personality brand for me is like one where you can clearly articulate not just what the company sells, but what it believes how it thinks. [00:05:00] And how it consistently represents it in like culture. so it’s really, I think about identity in many ways, over messaging. And I, and I think we’re seeing more of this now, right?
Because we are in a different kind of like reality where I think attention is fragmented. We talk about this a lot, trust in, in institutions is, declining. And I think cultural relevance is the thing that moves really quickly. So a lot of brands, I think are asking themselves not. Like anymore, like how do we advertise, but how do we become someone or something, or a brand that people choose to spend their time with.
So I just think it’s like a different strategic posture that they are, like a personality brand takes on. it’s relational. I think it’s ongoing. and it requires like intention.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. And I think your point about how attention is so, fractured and splintered and people are in their little ’cause you used to be, that, you know, everybody would be around the television [00:06:00] and would be sharing in a singular moment of, you know, I mean, like, I don’t know.
It’s, it’s been quite a while now, right. But, That there would be times when everybody would be watching the same show and they’d see the same ads and dah, dah, dah. So, but it’s not really like that. And everybody’s in their own little pocket of, and I, I often think and say like, well, this just isn’t for me.
This particular thing isn’t for me. And that’s totally fine. It’s, but like, if you’re trying to reach all of those different. Segments of your audience, you would have to go about it a little differently. ’cause it’s not just one solution and that’s it.
Fatou B. Barry: No, there are many solutions now. There are many audiences, there are many platform.
There’s just so much I think that, brands and companies like, like the ecosystem that I think they exist in has continued to expand and continues to expand.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. Yep. so, One of the brands [00:07:00] mm-hmm. At least Gap Yes. Is noteworthy now because they kind of, they, they’ve added, whoops. I don’t wanna put that up necessarily.
It is there, it’s there. no, I tried to put the question up and it’s saying that, I don’t know, I got a little error message there. Let’s see. Let’s try it again. So, gap,
Fatou B. Barry: yeah.
Michelle Garrett: Has added a Chief Entertainment officer.
Fatou B. Barry: Yes.
Michelle Garrett: and it got a lot of coverage. So, so
Fatou B. Barry: much coverage.
Michelle Garrett: I mean, it it is, it is noteworthy because it’s, I guess it’s viewed as the first time somebody’s actually had that title.
Yeah. But again, before we went on, we were talking about how it’s not necessarily new. Right? Yeah.
Fatou B. Barry: Yeah, so I think that gaps announcement, like it one, it got a lot of press, right? And I think it wasn’t just the title, [00:08:00] like the title, like. The title was very important, but it was the signal that it sent.
Right. So I think when we talk about like a legacy fashion brand publicly creating a chief entertainment officer role, and we see that it, it gets like widespread media coverage. It really tells us that entertainment is no longer being treated as like a campaign support, that we’re seeing it being elevated to like.
An executive level infrastructure, but as we were talking like it didn’t start with gap, I think Gap might be the first to say like, Hey, we’re hiring or we’ve appointed a Chief Entertainment officer, but like we talk about Nike, right? Nike has been operating, I think like a studio for years. They’ve been building so much like athlete driven storytelling, that functions both as a cultural, like, as a cultural narrative and not just advertising.
take a look at Red Bull. Red Bull built an entire media. Like house, they produce films, they produce events, they produce global content. Right. And it’s like a media network. So to me, like it feels like just taking Nike [00:09:00] and red Bull, it, it feels like IP development. Right. And not just marketing.
Mm-hmm. And then if you look at, even in the last year, like Dick’s Sporting Goods, like launched a, in-house continent production studio. Right. And so it’s dedicated, I think, to telling human like centered stories through the lens of sport. Mm-hmm. And they’ve produced. Like feature lamp films and like episodic series.
So, it’s like there’s a lot of original programming I think that is meant to connect with culture and community. And even if you look at, you know, skims, right? Who treat celebrity collaborations as like episodic programming, each product drop feels like a chapter in a larger storyline, and it’s not just a standalone product moment.
And so e even with like, and I know I’m like, I’m like, wait, yeah, this is, there’s so many like examples. I’m like, even like if you look at. These like media platforms who are like launching signature series. So all of these, like, we’re seeing reoccurring content formats and I think, they’re creating audience, habit and community.
And, but that’s program, that’s programming thinking, right? That’s thinking from [00:10:00] like a how do we build something that continues, to rent, like to, to, to. Basically like request people’s attention. So I don’t think that people are trying, like brand specifically, I think they’re moving from a place of like now no longer wanting to rent attention, right?
Mm-hmm. They wanna own their audience relationship, they wanna own their intellectual property, and they want to build, a cultural presence that is reoccurring. I think gap formalizing the role just makes it like what’s been happening internally, and structurally a lot more visible to folks.
Michelle Garrett: That makes a lot of sense.
And I love the additional examples because again, I, when I saw the post, it made a lot of sense to me, but I don’t know if everybody knows what we’re talking about. Well, we talked about personality, Brad, so, it’s not, it’s not really new, it’s just the gap has kind of.
Fatou B. Barry: Yeah.
Michelle Garrett: Made a, created a role for somebody to kinda lead that.
Fatou B. Barry: yeah, and I think we’re gonna see so many more, so many more of those roles start [00:11:00] to come to life. Like, I think we’re gonna see a lot of, like, entertainment officers, a lot of like, you know, in-house like content, like managers, directors, but it’d be like, like larger than just like content that’s related to like maybe a campaign or influencer marketing or like social campaigns.
Michelle Garrett: Right. Well, I think if they own it, it’s, it’s, it is a little bit easier to, control or, you know, I don’t know. They just stay closer to it and I feel like then it’s just more authentic than just handing it over. Not to say that, you know, not to, there’s nothing against agencies or consultants or anything like that.
However, I could see that a brand might wanna stay as close as possible to its audience and therefore the content that it’s serving the audience and it makes sense. I think so.
Fatou B. Barry: Absolutely.
Michelle Garrett: so. Let’s talk about this a little bit. Yeah. I keep, YouTube is giving me [00:12:00] airs today, so whenever I try to post,
Fatou B. Barry: they know this conversation is gonna, it is just too good.
Michelle Garrett: What’s going on? I’ll just, I’ll read it since I can’t get it to show. and so, so one of the articles talked about how GAP wants to prove, memorable content that doubles as advertising can keep people talking about. Its. Close.
Fatou B. Barry: Mm-hmm.
Michelle Garrett: so my question then is, does this signal emerging of disciplines?
Fatou B. Barry: Hmm. I think so. Right. I think in recent years there has been. A lot of blurring Right? Between paid, earned, and owned. but I think that those distinctions are becoming kind of like operationally irrelevant, right? So I think before it, people would be like, no, I only focus on this one thing, or this is the one thing, this is the function.
This is the one function that I’m like anchored in. Right? But like. The way people like engage with content has changed, right? So content can now function as advertising. [00:13:00] You can see a piece of like maybe something that a brand puts out on, like social be leveraged and then used as like a commercial or a spot, right?
Advertising can function as entertainment. Entertainment can generate earned media, so like. All of these things are like in, I think in tune, like with each other now, right? And so because of that strategy can’t really be, fragmented anymore, right? Mm-hmm. so I think when we talk about maybe like specifically pr, right?
Like we can’t be brought in at the end of a campaign cycle anymore, right?
Michelle Garrett: Right.
Fatou B. Barry: Brands are building their own series, right? Their own talent partnerships and their own content ecosystems, like the narrative architecture that we, I think. support in has to be designed at the beginning. And so I think all of like the, the, the blurring or the merging of disciplines, right?
It is like, it’s no longer about just placing stories, it’s about producing them. So, I, I would definitely would say that it, it is a signal of the merging of disciplines. and I [00:14:00] think. Kind of just this upstream collaboration that is happening between like pr, creative brand talent and media. and so it’s kind of changing, like just the dynamics within organization.
Michelle Garrett: Mm-hmm.
Fatou B. Barry: Yeah.
Michelle Garrett: And it’s interesting too because I, you know, I know a lot of folks that are looking for work right now.
Fatou B. Barry: Yeah.
Michelle Garrett: And, this is not new, this particular. Point that I’m gonna make, but the, the titles are all over the place, is what my friends have told me. And that also the responsibility. So it’s really hard now to put people in a box as far as, okay, you’re gonna do PR or media.
Absolutely. You’re gonna do advertising, paid media, you’re gonna do content, owned media. You know, it’s, it’s, yeah. Yeah.
Fatou B. Barry: You kind of have to know. And then like, it’s, it’s like. There’s just the, there’s more expectation I think, in the role like now to like understand different disciplines and to be able to tap into some of the skills of other disciplines that I think historically we haven’t, like in pr, we [00:15:00] haven’t had to like, you know, to do.
Yeah. Yeah.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. And I wonder if the, on the education side, on the university side, if it’s keeping up with the programs are keeping up and I know, I know some that probably are. but it’s interesting to me too because I also, have seen or talked to students who, I mean that I don’t know if they’re getting the, all the, you know, it’s really hard to touch on all the things that they might need.
Absolutely. I feel like there’s really a focus now on the, the technology side, which, I mean, I understand AI and. All that. However, I feel like, you know, being able to, I still think writing is important. Absolutely. Being able to present and speak on your feet is really important. Present your ideas. and I just think the multimedia piece is so important and mm-hmm.
You know, like we never studied. Really graphic design or no, you know, video production. And I know there’s a lot of tools for all these things, but it would be, I think it’s really helpful if people have that [00:16:00] understanding of how to do it before you just. Plug a tool in and let the tool do.
Fatou B. Barry: Absolutely. I, what I love is I, you know, I have, a, a colleague, Michael K, he teaches and he’ll bring in, like basic real life professionals across different disciplines and across different like industries.
So he doesn’t just like. Bring in, like someone on the PR end, he’ll bring in someone in social or bring in someone in marketing. And the goal is to give his students, a really, I think like well-rounded understanding of the, the environment, like the professional environments they’re going to be entering.
And I find it so valuable because it’s like you can learn so much right through a textbook. Like, and I think like if your curriculum is being updated, absolutely, but. You won’t know until you are like kind of thrown into the lines then of like working in an industry. Yeah. That it’s changing quickly. and so I completely agree.
I, I think it’s so important that curriculum and students get access to like [00:17:00] a wide breadth of like, hey, like these are the skills that are never gonna change. These are foundational, are gonna need to know how to write. You’re gonna need to know how to, Like, do like to speak right. To do X, y, z to even like, to think critically.
’cause I think that’s another part too, that like, we don’t, we don’t push enough. It’s like we need, we need to push PR and comm, students to be critical thinkers, especially as they enter. I think a, you know, I know that the, the world looks different like now than it did 10 years ago than it did 20 years ago than it, right.
Think like. There’s a, there’s such like a need, for a, a really just like good, like holistic, like sense of just like the skills that you need to succeed. In this day and age.
Michelle Garrett: Oh yeah. and critical thinking is on the decline as we have seen. And AI is not helping anything. And also just being constantly, you know, scrolling on your phone and you know, people don’t read and [00:18:00] they don’t, then they don’t ride.
And then the. It’s a critical
Fatou B. Barry: thing. We’re in a media literacy crisis and I think it’s so like year. We, we constantly, we reshared this post. I know we’re probably like segueing off a little, but we, we share this post consistently, which is like. We there, their gener, there were years spent talking about like communications was like a party degree.
Right? And like, it might actually be one of the most important degrees because you’re in I media literacy crisis be like, we need more people to, to like to be in comms. We need more people to be like. Taking the things that they learn and like how to like critique a piece of media, how to, like an anana, analyze it, how to tell if it’s real or not, especially in this age of like AI misinformation and like trust decline.
All of those things I think contribute to the decline in media and literacy as well.
Michelle Garrett: Absolutely. and it’s very important, and as we see the shift again away from traditional media outlets [00:19:00] to, you know, people getting their news on YouTube or, TikTok or wherever they’re getting it, those, those are not necessarily journalists.
And so then you really have to think critically about, you know, what are they really presenting? And, and is it true because, just because somebody says it. Or writes it. It does not mean that it is true.
Fatou B. Barry: You know, it’s so interesting, like it’s happened a few times now with like in my own life where like someone has sent me something and I’m like, Hey, did you verify this?
Like my immediate like inclination is when I read something I need to find two it through other sources like yeah,
Michelle Garrett: that.
Fatou B. Barry: You know, that’s, that confirmed the same thing or that I can like, but people don’t, that’s not happening anymore. They’re seeing something on the internet, on YouTube, on TikTok, their, their favorite creator is saying something and it’s like, that’s it.
Like, there’s no need to like to check in and be like, Hey, is this accurate? You know? and so I know that’s a [00:20:00] segue, but I think it’s a very important, it’s important to like anything that we do, so.
Michelle Garrett: I think it’s very important, so I appreciate that because yeah, it’s very near and dear to my heart. And yeah, yeah, I studied journalism, to do, you know, and PR was within that program Yeah, when I went to school.
And so, I really believe that journalists are doing, Important work. And they, they don’t approach it the way that somebody who doesn’t have that. I mean, it’s a whole different thing. If you don’t have that training, you’re not gonna approach it in the same way.
Fatou B. Barry: You’re just gonna
Michelle Garrett: be,
Fatou B. Barry: there’s an like an incomplete like ethics and accountability to like the craft of journalism that is, that like, you don’t, like, it’s like a craft.
You have to study it, you have to adhere by, you know, there’s, there are journal, there’s journalistic integrity. Right. Something that, like we expected from a journalist, people don’t. Expect it, even though they should from some of like, you know, whether it be like creators or whether it be like some, you know, maybe independent [00:21:00] platform.
So I completely, yeah, I, yeah,
Michelle Garrett: yeah. Very important point. And Janelle says we need so many more people in comms and we do. I agree. Although I do feel like that sometimes, It’s hard to find a good program to learn. and, yeah, kind of went through, through this with one of my own kids. And so yeah, it was the, the, it’s interesting because I don’t know if people understand how important it is and
Fatou B. Barry: it’s so important.
It’s like, yeah, I, I am like, I shout from the rooftops all the time that we need, we need one, we need more people in communications, right? So we need, like, we need to basically, I think do a better job at helping, Folks who are interested, like understand like that com comms is like a viable career path and like what they can do in communications, right?
I think when you think about PR and comms oftentimes, like there’s a very like narrow like linear way of like, oh, okay, so it must mean this and it must mean that. And like, there’s just [00:22:00] so much falls under that umbrella. so it’s something that I’m really passionate about, but I also. The second bit of that too, to what you said is like, we need, like, we need good communications programs.
Like we need ones that aren’t just teaching this work in theory, right? Because it’s one thing to look at a textbook and you know, like read from it, like right. But it’s a completely different thing to like, to look at the function and the context of the world that we live in, like right now. So.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah.
Well, two things, that came to mind. One, when, when you were talking a little bit ago about, like real world experience, like internships too. And I feel like some, schools do a better job, you know, with that, but that’s just a crucial piece. ’cause it really does help students kind of get their feet wet and
Fatou B. Barry: absolutely
Michelle Garrett: kind see what they like in addition to just gaining that experience that they can then use in their portfolio or
Fatou B. Barry: Yep.
Michelle Garrett: You know. It just, it could lead to [00:23:00] connections, that might lead to, you know, full-time work when they graduate. So that’s also important. And then just the role of, communications as far as building trust with your audiences. So, yeah. And we see, again, trust obviously is on the decline and it makes sense why it is, but that’s, that’s what we do.
That’s what we are doing, is fostering that trust with our audiences. So hopefully, you know,
Fatou B. Barry: right.
Michelle Garrett: Hopefully people, understand that and see it as, as a viable career path. ’cause it’s not, it’s not, it’s not dead. It’s not going away.
Fatou B. Barry: It’s not going away. If anything, it’s more needed than ever. So, yes.
Michelle Garrett: we do have a question.
It’s a little, it’s is not exactly, it’s a little off the topic, but we’re, we’ll, we will, we’ll take a look at it. Okay. So what should people look for when deciding on a pr comms professional to work with? So, I mean. I,
Fatou B. Barry: I [00:24:00] mean, there are many, I mean, yeah, I think there, so I, I think one, the biggest thing is alignment, right?
And I say that because I think we. There’s not a shortage of people who are doing in pr, PR and comms, but like
Michelle Garrett: Right.
Fatou B. Barry: Are they well versed in the specific, like what you’re looking for specifically? right. In terms of like industry, right. The industry that you exist in or your product or your your company exists in, I think is always important.
because there is such. The subject matter experts do exist, and doing PR or comms across different industries does look different. So while the skillset, I think is, you know, transferrable, there are specific nuances within industries, that are important. So that’s why I say alignment is super important.
Like, does this person have a background in what it is that you need, them to be doing? So if you are in, if you’re a beauty brand, like. You probably shouldn’t, like be looking for someone that’s coming in from [00:25:00] like, you know, maybe a healthcare or like a fi even just being honest. yeah. And so I think that’s the biggest thing.
I think alignment is really, really important. I, I think that’s what people should be looking for when deciding on a PR and college professional to work with. I think seeing kind of like a track record too. Like what, you know, one expectation that I have of. Whenever clients or potential clients are asking, like, yeah, I’ll have a portfolio, I’ll walk you through like case studies.
being able to like really like showcase the work and not the work in like, this is what I do, but like being able to be like, Hey, like this is what a case study looked like. This is what a project looked like. Here was the input for the strategy, and here here’s what happened as a.
Michelle Garrett: Right. Yeah. Results.
That’s a, that’s important. And I do agree. ’cause I, there are certain industries that I don’t, I don’t really go near because my experience is very limited. Yeah. And I wouldn’t, I would refer that out or, or just tell them that I’m not the best fit for that because Yeah, I do think, but I don’t think enough people ask that question, which is interesting to me too.
And also people I know, consultants I’ve [00:26:00] seen often when they do like. have a social media profile in their bio. They don’t mention, they don’t call out specifically industries that they are
Fatou B. Barry: 100%
Michelle Garrett: specializing in. And I feel like that’s, that’s really important too. ’cause it’s a differentiator for you, so.
Fatou B. Barry: Absolutely. Yep.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. And it doesn’t mean that people outside those industries won’t still call on you, because I’ve also learned that myself. It’s like, well I’m not gonna pigeon myself by saying this ’cause
Fatou B. Barry: Absolutely, yeah.
Michelle Garrett: I still get, you know, Inquiries from people in other industries, so,
Fatou B. Barry: yep, I love it.
Michelle Garrett: So that, so Ash, I hope that helped.
Fatou B. Barry: okay.
Michelle Garrett: So, so the next question that I have is, yes, you know, we’ve talked a little bit about this, but brands are behaving like media companies. So how does this impact the work of PR and comms professionals? Yeah,
Fatou B. Barry: I think it’s expanding our, like our, the, the scope of our role significantly.
Right? I, so. If brands are behaving like media companies, [00:27:00] I think PR professionals have to think beyond like coverage metrics, right? So like, we now have to think in terms of narrative systems, like what is the long-term arc? Who are the reoccurring voices, what cultural spaces, you know, are we choosing to commit to consistently?
I think it requires. A bit of a fluency and talent strategy too. So like, if a brand’s personality is anchored in people, then the people that you choose to work with become strategic, right? Because it’s not just about visibility, it’s about authority, and alignment. So I think that there, it, it’s just our scope is changing, right?
There’s also an ethical layer there. The more. Human A brand tries to be, I think the more important authenticity becomes, and like, we know that people are like engaging in manufactured authenticity. so I think PR professionals kind of become both like narrative architects and in some ways are like a bit of like the ethical guardrails.
And that’s something that I’d say like maybe hasn’t always been a part of the scope, but I think it just, it expands [00:28:00] the scope of our work.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. Yeah. And that’s, I mean, I guess you could look at it two ways. I mean, I think, this crosses my mind a lot too. It’s like we sometimes see people pushing back on being asked to do too many things, right?
Yeah. So we wanna hire one person and they’re gonna manage, you know, all of these things. We responsible for all these things and these, the salary is gonna stay. What the salary is. Yes. You know? Yes. So that’s a kind of an issue. But I absolutely, I mean, I like the positive of, of this is that we get to do more things, which gives, you know, brings more variety to our work.
It’s never boring. Yeah. And we get experience doing all these, these things and you might find something you really love versus just doing, you know, being focused on one particular area, for example. So, yeah.
Fatou B. Barry: Yeah. I think that as the scope increases of like what folks are, are what, what the expectation is for PR and com professionals, I think that like we should also be paid accordingly [00:29:00] for it because I think that is a problem in our industry like that.
We are expected to do so many things and not get paid for it. and like that in itself is like, no, our scope increases. We have a lot to bring and we should be getting paid more for the work that we do because it is a lot of work that people don’t always like recognize it to be.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. So if the scope increases, so should the salary
Fatou B. Barry: Yes.
Michelle Garrett: Putting that in the comment, so
Fatou B. Barry: yes.
Michelle Garrett: but, but yeah, no, I, I could see that being a double-edged sword. and again, for students it could be a little overwhelming. So I would say again, you know, if you’re younger in your career, if you’re just, you know, you’re still in school, don’t get overwhelmed, but just, you know, understand that, you know, you might be asked to do things that you might not have thought would fall in your fall.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, and that, like I said, that could be good or bad. Yeah. [00:30:00] But just something to be thinking about and be prepared for. And, again, I think having examples of your work and having mm-hmm. A portfolio and you know, things, to show, that you’ve done and results that you’ve gotten. I think that’s really important.
And for companies that hire the interns, bring the interns in, they should pay them, and
Fatou B. Barry: they do absolutely pay them. Yes. Yes.
Michelle Garrett: They should also give them opportunities to do real work and not just Yes. Clean out the tchotchke closet or whatever.
Fatou B. Barry: Exactly. Cultivate the talent that you have, like Yes.
Michelle Garrett: Right.
And get Yeah, give them a chance. ’cause they’re actually, you know, there’s some really bright, students out there. Yeah. Just, you know, dying for an opportunity to, to do something and, and show what they can do. So.
Fatou B. Barry: Wonderful.
Michelle Garrett: This next question is really two parts. So, so are brains going to, increase their [00:31:00] collaborations with influencers, do think, based on this trend?
Fatou B. Barry: I think so. I think that it, but it’s gonna move beyond what we traditionally think of as like influencer collaboration, right? Or like, as most people know, like influencer integration or marketing. I think. That and we’re entering kind of like, it’s not just like an influencer, right? We we’re entering what I think is like an expert error like era, in my opinion.
Mm-hmm. so I don’t think people are like solely focusing on like, creators with reach Right. Anymore. I think brands are like collaborating or we’ll continue to collaborate with people who hold cultural authority within, like their specific communities.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. well, I kinda like that because, I think, you know, I’ve always struggled with the influencer term because in my mind at working in pr, journalists are influential.
Analysts are influential. We’ve always worked with them. So in that way, we have always [00:32:00] done, influencer marketing work, you know, work with influencers. However, when you’re. When influencer means somebody’s, you know, being paid to promote a particular product. Mm-hmm. ’cause they’re a celebrity or an athlete or whatever it is, I just don’t.
You know, I, I’d rather have somebody be an actual advocate and expert, like maybe there are celebrities that actually use your product, and then that, you know, that makes more sense to me. But this thing where we just pay someone to hold up the product or you, you know, like I don’t,
Fatou B. Barry: no, I completely agree.
And I think we’re even seeing it, like there is a, there’s like tension, like in terms of like, I, I think across industries right now where it’s like, all right. There’s a, this influx of creators, but we’re the experts. Like everyone is like, we’re in the expert deficit, I think for real. and I, when you think about like specifically industries where like health, right?
Like wellness and, and, and things that have like real world impact on if someone is [00:33:00] telling you to do this thing that is actually not like verified or not a good thing to do. Yeah. Like those have real world like implications and effects on people. So, but I think. That’s why I say I think that like this, the way that pr, the way that like brands are starting to treat their, companies like media, like media companies.
And as a result, what that means for like influenza collaborations, I think we’re gonna see a wider breadth of like who folks are working with. And I think there’s going to be a need for like experts versus just somebody who’s like, you know, identifies as the influencer or a content creator.
Michelle Garrett: Well, that’s the thing.
And if you call yourself an influencer that always.
Fatou B. Barry: Listen,
Michelle Garrett: and then the term creator has always bothered me a lot as well. Yeah, so interesting that you brought that up because to me, somebody that just is creating stuff does not mean that they’re an expert at
Fatou B. Barry: Yeah, I think there’s, and you know what? I think it’s like.
It. So when we spend too far to one side, I think [00:34:00] like we, we find ourselves like course correcting. And I think that’s what’s happening now is that a lot of individuals are identifying the fact that like, oh, actually no, like we need experts. Like, just because you, like, I, I think the last few years there’s been this belief that, you know, and I, and I have no gripe against like, I think.
Do what You have to make your money. Like I know that influencing and content creating also opens up doors for people. There’s a, there’s a lot to it, but I do think that there is a very real need for experts. I think that there is a very real need for individuals, again, who have like, just cultural authority that is not just like manufactured by like views and like likes and, and, and comments.
I think that that is something that is extremely important.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. Well, I, and I love that that might be trending away from that. Yeah.
Because
Fatou B. Barry: it,
Michelle Garrett: I just never, you know, something just don’t,
Fatou B. Barry: yeah. And I, no, and I also think that just like the way that the, like the way that people are, [00:35:00] I think I. Like engaging with media the way that people are like as a whole.
I think we’re also seeing like a bit of a decline in celebrity culture, which is why I think there’s such an opportunity here, right? Where actually the community leader, right, or the, like the individual who has more cultural like authority within a very specific community, like they probably wield more influence, right?
Because they are. Like, and they’re not like prompt propping themselves up as an influencer, but these are people who like, have influence, but it’s related to work that they’re, they’re doing or they have been doing. And I think that is extremely important,
Michelle Garrett: not propping themselves up. That I love that. Yes.
Fatou B. Barry: I said because, and I was, it’s like we need, I always say this like we love, I again, I love, I love what influencing does for people. I love that it like. Through this medium, [00:36:00] individuals are like exposed to possibilities and opportunities that maybe like they would’ve never have gotten before. I think we still do need individuals who like.
We need people who, like, are, are not, who just are trying to do the work too. I, I, I do believe. Yeah. Yeah.
Michelle Garrett: Mm-hmm. I mean, I feel like there ought to be a little, authenticity, a little heart and soul in it. Mm-hmm. It shouldn’t, again, it shouldn’t just be because Yeah. You’re being paid millions
Fatou B. Barry: dollars.
Yeah. And people, people can manufacture authenticity now. Right. It is a thing that, like a lot of brands have realized that like, oh wait, actually we can like. We can like mold this thing, we can like cosplay as X, Y, Z and so like people are really seeking individuals who that they know like have done the work are in these spaces and like are credible.
I think that and the ex that’s experts are credible.
Michelle Garrett: Yes. I love all of these words that you’re using. I
Fatou B. Barry: love it. [00:37:00]
Michelle Garrett: And well, and part two of that question, which you’ve kind of talked about a little bit is, you know, who else might brands collaborate with, on this type of content beyond, you know, what you would think of as a traditional influencer?
Fatou B. Barry: Yeah, I mean, he could be a founder. You could a community leader, which I mentioned, I think, just in, I, I really think it can be anyone. I think it’s just somebody who carries credibility and death in a, like, in, in niche spaces. And I, I, I think it’s like less, it’s going to, I think it is gonna be less about follower account and it’s gonna be more about legitimacy.
I really do. I think transactional influencer activations are gonna like shift to. Sustained storytelling opportunities and partnerships. And so like I, I do foresee brands building like reoccurring collaborations with people who can anchor them in like meaningful, like cultural conversations.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah.
Yeah. Well this would be a, a fabulous trend if it actually,
Fatou B. Barry: I hope so. I’m [00:38:00] listen, but like, I, again, I think we are, there is a lot more, like people need experts. People are like, I, there is a desire for, for experts and, yeah.
Michelle Garrett: Well, and I mean, this wasn’t, you know, this wasn’t on my mind before just this minute, but like, you know, the fact that we see AI based search, G-E-O-A-E-O, whatever you wanna call it, It’s not, it’s changing search too. Mm-hmm. So what I am seeing is the people that have been in a space for a long time doing the work that is showing up, that is adding the credibility. So then when the person goes into search and that person pops up. They already have heard of the person. Yeah. Because they are in the space doing the work.
They are probably an expert. And so that is a really big deal in my mind. And that makes sense. Not like some of these other things. Like again, with the search packing and the keywords and like, you know, there’s just certain things in the industry that have not made sense to me.
Fatou B. Barry: Yeah.
Michelle Garrett: And so now I feel like maybe we’re [00:39:00] actually.
You know? Yeah. Maybe it’ll make sense.
Fatou B. Barry: I hope so. I truly hope so. I truly hope so. I really do. I think it’s like, it’s, it’s, it’s tough. It is tough sometimes, I think to exist in this version of. The internet in this version of multiple industries, and it’d be like, what are we do? What is going on? What are we doing?
and, and I also think it’s changing stuff like the fact that like so many journalists now feel forced to be creators too. Like it, there’s just, there, there’s a lot happening that I think is like kind of working against. Where we should be trending and tracking towards.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. I just saw somebody post about that as well, that trend of, journalists having to create a personal brand.
Yeah. It goes against, you know
Fatou B. Barry: Yeah.
Michelle Garrett: Being ethical.
Fatou B. Barry: Yeah. I think at the Washington, it might be, I, if I’m misquoting him, I think it was the Washington Street Journal or No Wall Street. It, it’s one of the, [00:40:00] it’s WSJI can’t remember that. Yeah.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah.
Fatou B. Barry: That’s. We’re developing an internal, like talent, like hub and incubator for some of their writers.
I’ll have to like make sure that it, but I, I know that I, I read it recently, and I was like, this is so interesting, like, because most people who get into journalism just wanna do the work. They just wanna tell stories. And now there’s an added like, I think pressure to be a creator because that is where people’s attention is like, is going to.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. this is, so this conversation. I love this conversation.
Fatou B. Barry: I do too.
Michelle Garrett: That I’m just writing things down because, to come back to, to, to think about, for the future. Yeah. because, a again, like, like if a journalist is also working on a book mm-hmm. And they have information that would probably be important to put in a story like now
Fatou B. Barry: Yeah.
Michelle Garrett: Then they [00:41:00] save it for months, years, what, you know, that fe feels to me like. that’s not ethical as a journal. I mean, to, that’s, you know, I, I am passing judgment, I guess, but yeah, I mean, I, I don’t, that trend is, is not a good one in my opinion.
Fatou B. Barry: Yeah. Yeah. I just think it takes you, like, people just want.
Just people wanna do the work. And I think that’s a lot of, like, the, the tension right now is that a lot of people just wanna do the work and it feels like you have to do the thing that you want it to do. And then also like seven other things to get people to like listen and to like pay attention and to understand.
and I think it’s like a, it’s, it, it’s like a really like tough thing I think to navigate. Especially if like, you’re just like, you can’t sign up to be all these things. You signed up to do one thing. Yeah.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. No, and that’s, I think that’s sad because again, as somebody who has studied journalism, I think that that’s, you know, it’s, it’s important.
And again, like people [00:42:00] are, you know, that’s, it’s not enough to just, to just do that work, which is hard work,
Fatou B. Barry: which is hard work already.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. And important work. And the other is kind of frivolous. I mean, if we’re being honest, like, you know, you know, building your audience on Substack versus, you know, giving information to, you know, audiences that need it.
Like,
Fatou B. Barry: and I think it’s also like what is the, like this is a conversation that I, like, I have a lot with my, with my friends, of like, what is the purpose, right? So like, is it one. When you’re producing to build an audience versus producing to get information out, it’s two different like strategies.
Right. And so what, especially in a time where, like what, where does people’s attention go? Rage bait, like, like things that are just very, like, we’re in an attention economy. An attention economy doesn’t necessarily mean that like what? What people are paying attention to is what they should be paying attention to, and that is the right thing to pay attention to.
And so I [00:43:00] think it creates this like tension for individuals who are working inside of this. Like I don’t wanna like. Yeah, I want people to like read the things that I’m writing about because they’re important things that need to get out into the world, but like, what, what people are, people’s attention span is like towards like the hot take towards like the thing that’s gonna, like, that’s inflammatory.
and so I think like that’s a whole other conversation. But yeah, I think there’s a lot, there’s a lot of, of, of factors that goes into that.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you, you’re just, you’re, you’re hitting it, you’re nailing it on so many levels. and I know we’re not here to talk about all these things. So somebody mentioned, Stephanie says it’s definitely a thing at the Washington Post where they’re, where they have the Yeah.
Fatou B. Barry: Idea was one of them. I’m like, if the
Michelle Garrett: W Yeah.
Fatou B. Barry: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Michelle Garrett: Well, you know, wall Street Journal, Washington Potato.
but thank you Stephanie for, for that. Yeah,
Fatou B. Barry: thank you. That confirmation. I was like, did I make that up? No, [00:44:00]
Michelle Garrett: no. I saw it too. I can remember which, which one, but in my mind they blur a little bit. So,
Fatou B. Barry: yeah. No. Say,
Michelle Garrett: so, so we’ve talked a little bit about trust. Mm-hmm. It’s more important than ever for every brand, whether it’s a big brand, a personal brand, any brand, it’s trust, is it?
Right. I mean, and so how do you think this trend, this personality brand trend mm-hmm. plays into that?
Fatou B. Barry: Yeah. I think trust is really central to this. Like to. Personality brands in this shift. Like I think we, we, you, you mentioned in the notes like that Oman Trust barometer, right? It’s consistently showing that people are trusting individuals whether than they are institutions.
So I think a lot of brands are trying to humanize, right? and going from a, like we’re a brand you trust because most people don’t trust brands anymore to see we’re someone you know. Right? and so I think that makes sense, in a low trust environment, which we are [00:45:00] in because people. People like familiar familiarity, like kind of creates, comfort for them.
But I think that, there’s a risk, and it goes back to what we talk about, like manufactured, right? Mm-hmm. Authenticity. So if, if it’s, if, if familiarity is being engineered purely for objects, right? I think people are, are picking up on that, right? Mm-hmm. manufactured intimacy, manufactured authenticity, these things erode trust faster, than any type of like, I think traditional advertising could.
And so I actually think. I am a big proponent of like the com professional, as the individual who like creates real alignment, right? Mm-hmm. So I think for us, we play a critical role, right? Because there’s an opportunity for us to ensure that personalities and collaborations and the narratives we build right, are grounded in real alignment.
And it’s not just strategic positioning. we. We talk about this a lot at the PR goal manifesto, [00:46:00] like what is the role of the PR and com professionals And we try to like, push people to really think about their work as one that’s like, like supposed to be anchored in ethics and, and, and, and morality.
Mm-hmm. I think for so long. We’ve gotten the spin, right? Like the spin narrative has been placed on us of like, you know, we don’t, we, we spin everything. and so I think there, oh, I think trust is central to the chef and I think there’s an opportunity for, PR and com professionals to push these brands and these companies to, to really anchor in on trust and, and consistency and integrity.
Michelle Garrett: Again, you know, we’ve seen these trends kind of come and go a little bit with that. I mean, I think we see, well, what’s interesting to me about the trust barometer, because every year, you know, I follow it and
Fatou B. Barry: yeah,
Michelle Garrett: I got it. while people don’t trust brands, they trust brands more than they trust other organizations and they trust politicians of course.
And they trust the media. So [00:47:00] that’s always been interesting to me because to me that is an opportunity Yeah. For the brand. To become, you know, the person, the, the, not the person. But see here, I’m humanizing it. Humanizing.
That’s how they want us to think about her. Yes, the brand becomes the one you look to. Mm-hmm. for, you know, whatever it might be. But that puts a lot of pressure on a brand because again. You are gonna, sometimes when you make one move to, endear yourself to one part of your audience, you’re gonna alienate another part of your audience.
100 Nike is an example, that we’ve seen that with
Fatou B. Barry: Yeah.
Michelle Garrett: Multiple times.
Fatou B. Barry: Yeah. But I think Nike also has a really, I, and, and honestly, the, I think it kind of goes back to knowing your brand. Like there like, and we, like, is your brand anchored in. When we talk about brand values, right? We talk about brand stories, we talk about all that.
Like what is it? Is it anchored in like trends? So like if [00:48:00] something changes, like does. How you lean or, you know, towards the brand change. All of those things I think, really are important and matter because Nike definitely does isolate people, but they’re okay with that because they know who they are to like some degree, and they’re okay with isolating people as long as they’re talking to their main like audience.
Right. and it’s like sometimes that core group will take you farther than trying to like, gain the attention and like, and, and trust of like. I mean, I think we see it too, like even in this world that we live in, like on the other end of it is like that core group. Like, we’ll take you places. Right. Or like, if you can, if folks are reading between the lines, like we’ll take you places even if you are isolated.
So it’s like, I think it’s like it can go either way. Yeah.
Michelle Garrett: Right. No. And, but I mean that, you know, if you can do that, I, I think, you know, that’s, that does create that trust and that [00:49:00] then they do, you know, people are probably, you know, that core group, I’m gonna use Nike as the example.
Fatou B. Barry: Yeah.
Michelle Garrett: just they, they’re, they, they know there’s, those folks are gonna stick with Nike.
Like they, they’re probably not going anywhere. And then the other people might come and go. They might get mad and leave, but temporarily and come back, you know, when Nike introduces something they like. So, I mean, I feel like that is just. That’s priceless, honestly. Yeah. If they, if you can do that, I mean, it, it, it does really make a difference.
so I mean it’s, it’s, it is interesting. there are other examples. Yeah. But we, yeah. Right.
anyway, but, but I mean, and, and, and not, not really to get, not to get into politics, but sometimes that’s part of the creating the trust too. And brands are now kind of. Asked or expected mm-hmm. By their audiences to take a stance on, on things sometimes. [00:50:00] Absolutely. Yeah. And then I see, go back and forth on that too.
Like I, it feels like the right thing for them to do, but then you see like sometimes, you know, maybe they shouldn’t be doing that. I don’t know.
Fatou B. Barry: Yeah. I think we talked about this too, like on our social channels of like there are certain, some brands can do it and like can be fully anchored in that because their brand history allows them to do so because.
Their values have consistently aligned to how they show up, right? So like I. Do expect that Ben and Jerry’s to always ha take a stance. I do expect that Ben and Jerry’s to like to be vocal and to like, you know, like anchor themselves in their values and be very loud and proud about it because Ben and Jerry’s historically can back that up, right?
Mm-hmm. Their brand history, there’s some brands who can, can’t do that. And so it becomes like, it becomes kind of like a double-edged sword when they do make some type of like statement or take a stance mm-hmm. Because like institutionally or historically, they haven’t been able to live up to like what it is that they’re promising or they’re saying in [00:51:00] that regard.
and so I, I think the, the, the struggle is now that it’s like consumers do have an expectation, right? Like whether. Like there, I’m sure there are a bunch of people who would be like, oh, we don’t care. Like we just want you to produce our product, or we just want you to do X, Y, Z. But a large demographic of people, want to spend their dollars and their time and their attention with brands that, they believe are aligned with, you know, their own per, like the, it’s almost like a humanizing of it too.
But I think even more so now, there are a lot of things in the world that people cannot control, right? Like there. Mm-hmm. The thing that people can control though, is where their money goes, where their time goes, and where their attention goes. So they’re, I think, even more critical, and have even more of an expectation for brands and companies to be able to like, basically like, this is where we stand.
This is who we are. and then [00:52:00] they make their buying. Decisions based on that.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah, I mean, I think that it, you know, again, I have been writing and following trends in the industry for years and I remember, you know, like Greenwashing, for example Yeah. Came to mind, does it make sense for your brand?
Because people are gonna know right away if you’re, you know, making some kind of claims that aren’t really consistent with
Fatou B. Barry: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Michelle Garrett: So I know that might not, that term’s been around a while, but, I also, I saw somebody, what was the other, there’s somebody called it sports washing, this week.
I saw that term used with some
Fatou B. Barry: sports wash. Oh, I have to look, I have not heard that. I,
Michelle Garrett: yeah, it was some of the, you know, some of the Olympic fallout, let’s just say that.
Fatou B. Barry: Oh
Michelle Garrett: yeah. So anyway, but yeah, it’s, it, it has to align. You’ve used that term a lot. Alignment align. Does it align with your brand?
You know, what you’re saying and what you’re, do you know what are you walking the talk? Are [00:53:00] you not, you know, ’cause people are gonna see through that. And consumers are, are very, you know, savvy and very, they’re just very tuned into that. So I, I don’t think you can get away with, you know, saying stuff that you’re not really, you know.
Fatou B. Barry: Oh, 100%. Yeah.
Michelle Garrett: I know we’re, we’re, we’re getting, toward the end here. I had, I have one more question and please feel free to ask questions. People are making comments and I love that. but if you have a question or to please ask or a question about this topic. so do you think consumers are shifting toward interactive story-driven content versus, traditional content and ads?
Fatou B. Barry: 100%. I think we’ve been seeing this like. For a while now. I think participation is big, right? So like, consumers no longer want to passively consume ads. Like I know I don’t, I love feeling like I’m inside of a narrative, right? And I think that’s why we’re seeing the rise of things like a signature series for a lot of brands.
We’re seeing episodic formats, we’re seeing immersive popups. We’re seeing behind [00:54:00] the scenes like storytelling and like. Platform, native video, all these things are like super, relevant because I think these formats create continuity. We talked about that earlier. So they build a habit, right? And they make audiences feel like they’re insiders rather than like targets who are being sold to.
and, and so I definitely think we are, we are shifting toward interactive story, different content I think we have for some time. I think for comms teams, this requires like this. This cross-functional fluency that we kind of were talking about. Like we have to understand a little bit of like the production, the distribution, the talent relations.
And I mean, I think experiential strategy has been kind of a part of what many of us have been doing. but you know, all these things are no longer as like separate. Separate, right. They’re, they’re integrated system. So like you, let’s say you build a thing, you build a signature series. How do you premiere it?
How do you debut it? How do you involve, like all of these things are like. Tied into it, and I think it really makes the case for. Like the [00:55:00] future PR and comms professional, not just being like the strategist, but also the producer. it’s almost like story people remember at the top of this year, I think at the end of last year, that whole storytelling is the most, like, is the number one skill that people are hiring for.
Right. And I think that’s true, but I also think it’s like story producing. It’s not just a storyteller, but it’s the story maker. and so I think, I think that, yeah, that we are definitely going towards, that direction.
Michelle Garrett: That’s really interesting. I’m gonna write this down. PR and comms pros as story makers.
Fatou B. Barry: Mm-hmm.
Michelle Garrett: Wait a minute. A story.
Fatou B. Barry: They’re not so like, there’s a need for like storytellers. Like, they’re like, people are looking for storytelling because again, AI slap all the things. Everyone sounds the same, but I don’t think it’s just about storytelling. I think we need like com PR and needs to be story makers too.
They need to know how to produce the stories and make the stories, not just tell the stories.
Michelle Garrett: Right. Okay.
Fatou B. Barry: Yeah.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah, that makes [00:56:00] sense. but again, a lot for us to take on and add to our plate.
Fatou B. Barry: I know there’s a, I know, and I think naturally my natural inclination, like I am very like a, I like my hands in everything, so like.
things like this, like excite me, but they are a lot of work and I think they do require one. We need to get paid for it, but I think they do require like a genuine, like, like it shouldn’t, it can’t be just one other thing that we now have to like, know how to do and like, it, there has to be some type of like, genuine like love and I think, excitement around it.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, heaven forbid we be excited about our, what we’re doing. I know,
Fatou B. Barry: I know, I know.
Michelle Garrett: I guess you and I are probably lucky in that regard because, you know, we kind of get to forge our own path a little bit, but,
Fatou B. Barry: I know, and I’m so grateful for it all the time. I’m like, I think I, I think a lot about like my early days, my early PR [00:57:00] days and feeling like I’ve always kind of been like a creative person and so traditional like.
Media relations was always a little bit tough for me to just do solely that, ’cause I’ve always, I think, fancied myself a creative communication strategist, but the way that the industry has been trending has naturally been like speaking to the things that I love and I’m passionate about. so I’m super, I think I’m grateful for that.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah, no, I, I am very grateful that I, can, you know, can,
Fatou B. Barry: because you can pick and choose. You can, you, you can build a career that like makes sense for you and a job that makes sense for you.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. No, I love that. I’m gonna put, we’re gonna, we’re gonna be wrapping up here. if you have a question, please ask it quickly, but I want for two to just add anything that maybe we didn’t hit on that she wants to add.
I’m gonna go ahead and put the PR Girl Manifesto website up here. and there are LinkedIn again, so you can follow those.
Fatou B. Barry: Yeah, I mean, I guess to add, and I think [00:58:00] I’ll, I’ll say this throughout this entire conversation, I think the biggest takeaway maybe is that like there’s both an opportunity and a responsibility, right?
I think that we actually, have. More influence than ever in shaping how brands show up culturally. but I think with that, like there’s a need for discernment. we need to ask ourselves questions about, you know, are we again, are we building aligned ecosystems or are we just manufacturing personality for attention?
Are we amplifying real spaces and real voices, or are we just borrowing like that credibility without commitment? so I think again, a lot of opportunity and a lot of responsibility as well.
Michelle Garrett: Right. No. And I, I, you know, I can’t thank you enough ’cause I think this has been such a great conversation and we could probably talk all afternoon about many.
I know.
Fatou B. Barry: I know.
Michelle Garrett: But this was so wonderful to have you here, Vitu. I just can’t thank you enough.
Fatou B. Barry: Thank you for having me. This was such a treat. Seriously. I, I was so looking forward to this conversation and it was [00:59:00] just as great as I knew it was gonna be.
Michelle Garrett: Oh, you give me so much to think about and I hope everybody will follow the PR Girl Manifesto and follow you and, they share some really insightful posts and, and blog posts and things.
And so, make sure that you’re following and, you know, looking to them as we move through this trend and many others and
Fatou B. Barry: many others.
Michelle Garrett: But thanks everybody who joined us. Thank you again for two, for being here, and I’ll see you again soon.
Fatou B. Barry: See you soon.
About the host: Michelle Garrett is a B2B PR consultant, media relations consultant, and author of B2B PR That Gets Results, an Amazon Best Seller. She helps companies create content, earn media coverage, and position themselves as thought leaders in their industry. Michelle’s articles have been featured by Entrepreneur, Content Marketing Institute, Muck Rack, and Ragan’s PR Daily, among others. She’s a frequent speaker on public relations and content. Michelle has been repeatedly ranked among the top ten most influential PR professionals.
Learn more about Michelle’s freelance PR consulting services here. Book a no-obligation call to talk about your needs here. Buy Michelle’s book here.
